relative age of James and John

Many languages have terms for siblings that define whether one is younger or older in relation to another sibling.

Dave Brunn reports this from the translation into Lamogai (see p. 141f. and 181f.):

“Some languages, including Lamogai, have two different words for brother. One means ‘older brother,’ and the other means ‘younger brother.’ In many cases, these languages do not have a generic word that includes both. Relating this to translation, which of the sons of Zebedee do you think was older, James or John? The Bible does not tell us, but there are some clues. The names James and John occur together about twenty times in the New Testament. In every occurrence, James is named first. Since there is not much else to go on, most translators who have faced this issue have considered this to be enough evidence to say James must be the older brother. Here is how we translated this pair of names in Matthew 17:1 in the Lamogai New Testament:

“‘Jems akap ino tikino Jon’ (‘James along-with his younger-brother John’)

“Technically, ‘tikino‘ means younger sibling of the same sex and ‘udikino‘ older sibling of the same sex. A man would refer to his older brother as ‘udikino‘ and his younger brother as ‘tikino.’ And a woman would use the same terms for her older and younger sisters. The term for opposite-sex sibling (either a man to his sister or a woman to her brother) is ‘luku.'” (Source for this paragraph: private communication from Dave Brunn)

In the translation into Oaxaca Chontal, the same principle is applied. (Source: Bratcher / Nida 1961)

The Chilcotin translators have tried to circumvent specifying which of the two is older, even though the language also uses age-specific terms for siblings. In Mark 1:19 and Mark 3:17 it says Zebedee beyiqi… (“Zebedee’s sons…”) and therefore avoids stating their respective age. Likewise in Mark 5:37 it says Peter hink´an ˀelhcheliqi James belh John (“Peter and brothers James and John”) (source: Quindel King).

See also Peter (Simon) / Andrew (relative age).

Sons of Thunder

In Saxwe Gbe translated the Greek that is translated in English as “Sons of Thunder” as “those who rumble like rainclouds.”

Joshua Ham explains: “While checking the book of Mark in Saxwe a while ago, we ran across an interesting problem. In Mark 3:17, Jesus gives a nickname to James and John: ‘to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder’ (NIV). The translators first tried a fairly literal translation of the last part of that verse – ‘… which means ‘children of thunder’.’ Seems OK, right?

“Well, the Saxwe word for thunder is xevyoso. That word, not coincidentally, is also the name for the Saxwe spirit of thunder and lightning. So a reader of this verse in Saxwe could easily imagine that Jesus is calling James and John followers of the thunder god Xevyoso. That’s not the meaning we want to give here!

“So what does Jesus mean when he calls James and John the Sons of Thunder? Well, the Bible itself doesn’t say explicitly, but the best idea is that James and John were stormy characters — loud, blustery, impetuous. (Read Luke 9:51-56 for an example of these attributes.) In Saxwe, the translators ended up saying ‘…which means ‘those who rumble like rainclouds’.’ This keeps the meteorological imagery, puts focus on the meaning of the name, and avoids making any possible reference to the Saxwe thunder spirit.”

In Lalana Chinantec it is translated as “intensely they did their work.” (Source: B. Moore / G. Turner in Notes on Translation 1967, p. 1ff.)

See also Son of God.

John the Evangelist (icon)

Following is a Bulgarian Orthodox icon of John the Evangelist from the 14th century (found in Rila Monastery, Bulgaria).

Orthodox Icons are not drawings or creations of imagination. They are in fact writings of things not of this world. Icons can represent our Lord Jesus Christ, the Virgin Mary, and the Saints. They can also represent the Holy Trinity, Angels, the Heavenly hosts, and even events. Orthodox icons, unlike Western pictures, change the perspective and form of the image so that it is not naturalistic. This is done so that we can look beyond appearances of the world, and instead look to the spiritual truth of the holy person or event. (Source )

See also John (the disciple).

John (the disciple)

The term that is transliterated as “John (the disciple)” in English is translated in American Sign Language with the sign for the letter J and the sign signifying “beloved,” referring to John 13:23 et al. (Source: RuthAnna Spooner, Ron Lawer)


“John” in American Sign Language, source: Deaf Harbor

In Swiss-German Sign Language it is translated with a sign that depicts John’s head resting on Jesus’ chest, referring to John 13:23.


“John” in Swiss-German Sign Language, source: DSGS-Lexikon biblischer Begriffe , © CGG Schweiz

In Spanish Sign Language it is translated with with the sign for “young.” This refers to the traditional belief that he was the youngest of the apostles and the fact that he was younger than his brother James (see relative age of James and John. (Source: Steve Parkhurst)


“John” in Spanish Sign Language, source: Sociedad Bíblica de España

See also John the Evangelist (icon).

Mark 3:13-19 in Russian Sign Language

Following is the translation of Mark 3:13-19 into Russian Sign Language with a back-translation underneath:


Source: Russian Bible Society / Российское Библейское Общество

Jesus called his disciples to him to climb a mountain. The disciples followed him. They came to a place. Jesus began to choose for himself the closest disciples — he chose one, another, a third, choosing a total of 12 men.

The first one was Simon. Jesus gave him the middle name Peter. The second was James. The third was John. James and John are brothers. Their father’s name was Zebedee. Jesus called them “Sons of Thunder.” Why did He give them that name? That was their character, like thunder and lightning. The fourth was Andrew, the fifth was Philip, the sixth was Bartholomew, the seventh was Matthew, the eighth was Thomas, the ninth was James (his father’s name was Alphaeus), the tenth was Thaddeus, the eleventh was Simon the Cananite, and the twelfth was Judas Iscariot. He then betrayed Jesus. There were twelve men in all. They were called apostles by Jesus.

What were they to do?

One. They should always follow Jesus.

Second. Jesus send them out to tell all the people about Jesus.

Third. Jesus gave them authority. If there was a demon in a person, the apostles had authority to cast the demon out of the person.

Original Russian back-translation (click or tap here):

Иисус призвал к себе учеников, чтобы забраться на гору. Ученики последовали за ним. Они пришли на место. Иисус стал выбирать для себя самых близких учеников — одного выбрал, другого, третьего, всего выбрал 12 человек.

Первый — Симон. Иисус дал ему второе имя Петр. Второй — Иаков. Третий — Иоанн. Иаков и Иоанн — братья. Отца их звали Зеведей. Иисус назвал из «Сыновья Грома». Почему Он дал им такое имя? Такой у них был характер, как гром и молния. Четвертый — Андрей, пятый — Филипп, шестой — Варфоломей, седьмой — Матфей, восьмой — Фома, девятый — Иаков (отца его звали Алфей), десятый — Фаддей, одиннадцатый — Симон Кананит, двенадцатый — Иуда Искариот. Он потом предал Иисуса. Всего их было 12 человек. Их Иисус назвал апостолами.

Что они должны были делать?

Первое. Они всегда должны следовать за Иисусом.

Второе. Иисус отправляем их, чтобы они рассказывали всем людям об Иисусе.

Третье. Иисус дал им власть. Если в каком-нибудь человеке был бес, апостолы имели власть изгнать беса из человека.

Back-translation by Luka Manevich

<< Mark 3:7-12 in Russian Sign Language

Mark 3:20-30 in Russian Sign Language >>

complete verse (Mark 3:17)

Following are a number of back-translations of Mark 3:17:

  • Uma: “These are the names of those twelve: Simon (Yesus named him Petrus); Yakobus child of Zebedeus; and Yohanes the relative of Yakobus (Yesus named them Boanerges–its meaning: people who are like thunder); after that, Andreas; Filipus; Bartolomeus; Matius; Tomas; Yakobus child of Alfeus; Tadeus; Simon the Zelot-person; and Yudas Iskariot (he’s the one who will sell Yesus to hisenemies.)” (Source: Uma Back Translation)
  • Yakan: “Yakub and Yahiya, the sons of Sebede, he also called them Boanerges. That means, people like rolling-thunder.” (Source: Yakan Back Translation)
  • Western Bukidnon Manobo: “These are the names of the twelve people whom Jesus chose: Simon whom he titled Peter, and James the son of Zebedee, and John the younger brother of James. These two he entitled Boanerges, which is to say, impulsive people. He also chose Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas, James the son of Alphaeus, and Thaddeaus. And he also chose Simon, one member of the former organization called Canaanista. Jesus also chose Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed him. After Jesus had chosen them he went home.” (Source: Western Bukidnon Manobo Back Translation)
  • Kankanaey: “the two children of Zebedeo who were Santiago and Juan (whom Jesus nicknamed Boanerges, meaning to say, like thunder),” (Source: Kankanaey Back Translation)
  • Tagbanwa: “Santiago and Juan who were the sons of Zebedeo, whom he called Boanerges, which means fierce/wild like thunder.” (Source: Tagbanwa Back Translation)